Rework zenra, exhibitionism, public_nudity, and nudist tags and Casual Nudity pool

A large part of why I made an account on this site, is I'm tired of seeing the above mentioned tags get misused for images that simply do not fit their definitions. People have basically conflated these tags with each other and created an undifferentiated soup. I'd like to start a project to fix these taggings so that they do not contain extraneous members.

Right now my account is too new to remove tags, so I cannot yet start on the work for this, but I'd like to open a discussion and request the help of others in this undertaking.

First, it would be great if you can explain where it is misused and why.

I agree with the Casual Nudity pool, a lot of recent images have been straight up sensual nudity, or at least drawn in erotic angles.

According to the wiki, Zenra and Exhibitionism are pretty similar. I assume that one's a "fetish" and another is supposedly the equivalent of being on a "nudity beach" (better way of explaining: One gets excited from being nude in public vs One finds being nude in public an everyday thing), but the setting they both take place in are pretty identical. So I can see how they can get confusing.

...Though I could be wrong on the definitions.

How do you even tag nudist outside of extra information provided with the image? It also feels like it may overlap a bit with zenra. The other 2 tags (public nudity and exhibitionism) sounds pretty similar but are probably easier to keep apart.

I don't upload images containing these things too often but I'm willing to help with the discussion.

Zenra's always felt superfluous to be honest, since exhibitionism is very much the english equivalent of the term, just not its own porn genre.
And since i'm being honest they're both too context depended. Sometimes only being clear that it's occurring from the image's comment.
If anything i'd get rid of both and alias them to the more general public nudity.

I'd go with keonas's suggestion and just merge all those tags into one tag. The Casual Nudity pool can stay though since it's a subjective subset of public nudity.

I don't agree with merging zenra, since art depicting a world where nudity's completely normal is such a rarity.

public_nudity and exhibitionism I could see a case of merging, especially since the former's starting to look redundant to the latter. Maybe alias them both to public_exposure or something?

I think there's still a case to be made for retaining exhibitionism. There's a major difference between circumstances where someone is willingly exposing themselves in a public setting (post #977323, post #2621702) and those where someone is naked in public by no fault of their own such as forcible humiliation, wardrobe malfunction, or spontaneous changes in size. The problem is that the exhibitionism tag is terribly overused, to the point of even appearing on posts where where the "exhibitionist" characters are almost certainly not naked of their own volition. I don't believe images like post #39468 or post #1919428 should have ever been tagged this way (neither appears to be willfully naked), and even cases like post #2177706 could have alternate explanations (clothes stolen from a locker room, kicked out of a lover's apartment, etc). The tag might be worth keeping; it just needs to be cleaned up and removed from posts where the character's nudity isn't unambiguously voluntary.

I actually had to look up more about Zenra since @Hillside_Moose 's description didn't match the situations in images i saw tagged with it so far.

Let me split this up in points:

1 Zenra Definition - Any act normally performed clothed being performed in the nude. - which actually describes nudism, only part of how the tag had been used both here and in japanese porn.

because 2 - zenra, the pixiv tag is a catch all nude term since they don't seem have the exhibitionism tag, which muddies the watter a lot.

3 Consent doesn't seem to specifically matter in either of the tags.

And 4 - I actually forgot that exhibitionism doesn't always imply nudity, so that tag is only partially overlapping zenra and should be kept in whole.

But that brings me to the conclusion that Zenra can be fully covered by 3 combinations of the other tags

- public nudity for when the characters are nude in a public place. With or without a crowd.
- nude for when it's not a public place (beach, indoors, etc) + the casual nudity pool.
- public nudity + exhibitionism, when a lewd act is also occurring and 1 of the characters involved is nude.

We have discussed this before in topic #10680. Il repeat what I said there.

Exhibitionism is a voluntary, sexually charged act. Or at least semi voluntary, some amount of duress can be involved but the exhibitionist must show some amount of excitement or "turned on nes" from the exposure.

Zenra and nudism are not supposed to be sexual for the parties participating. I like to point to post #515457 for an example of zenra as they are topless in a place where that would not be normal but it appears to be normal for them.

Public nudity and public must take place in public, so it must be obvious from the image that its not a private beach or forest where nudity might be allowed.

The pool #1536 is really for any image of a girl being naked and not sexual about it, even if she is showering or sunbathing where nudity is expected.

I clean up the three tags every now and then but there are constantly a lot of miss tagging. I think it would be a shame to loose the zenra tag although the nudist tag seems quite redundant.

keonas said:

I actually had to look up more about Zenra since @Hillside_Moose 's description didn't match the situations in images i saw tagged with it so far.

Let me split this up in points:

1 Zenra Definition - Any act normally performed clothed being performed in the nude. - which actually describes nudism, only part of how the tag had been used both here and in japanese porn.

because 2 - zenra, the pixiv tag is a catch all nude term since they don't seem have the exhibitionism tag, which muddies the watter a lot.

Part of the issue here is that "全裸" simply means "fully nude" in Japanese. Plain "裸" / naked in Japanese sometimes in practice includes people underdressed in a bikini or underwear for whatever reason. I've seen the more specific "genre" of "nudity is normal-world" referenced here, but I don't know that that's a standard definition.

keonas said:
3 Consent doesn't seem to specifically matter in either of the tags.

I would argue that it does or ought to, and that exhibitionism be consensual or intentional on part of the "exhibitor" to some degree, and humiliation / assisted exposure type situations not necessarily so.

I agree with moose that zenra is completely different from exhibitionism. It doesn't even fit with nudism, think of it like people acting as if they were not nude. There's no sexualization. Maybe removing the translated tag would help?

nonamethanks said:

I agree with moose that zenra is completely different from exhibitionism. It doesn't even fit with nudism, think of it like people acting as if they were not nude. There's no sexualization. Maybe removing the translated tag would help?

zenra from the wiki says that its nudity without context, as, doing something strangely done naked. then you have exhibitionism, which means showing naked body to someone, with consent. Public_nudity and nude are tags that are evident in the situation, not that explain an action that could be fetish, or an unusual lack of clothing.

As nnt said (and i also wanted to give my opinion on the matter as these tags being very cool for me), they are different.

For record keeping, I implemented some of this (finally) with input from the Discord. Please tell me here if there are any objections/concerns/remarks/etc.