Toctoc said:
Hey everybody,
Earlier today on the server we talked a little about the alchemist tag and I decided that I'd like to try and help out by populating it (31 pics tagged at the time I checked).
The issue I'm running into is that although a wiki exists for alchemist, it doesn't really help out to identify when a picture should or shouldn't be tagged with it. Alchemy doesn't even have a wiki, and although chemistry does have one, it runs into sort of the same issues.
So, I open up this topic to collect input from you all. How do we proceed? What qualifies a picture for the alchemist tag to be used: just a flask or vial? When do you use alchemy but not alchemist? Does chemistry imply alchemy or the other way around? etc
Thank you for your cooperation C=
Siiiiiiiiigh... this is going to be another one of those 'magic-related' tags, isn't it?
Anyhow, these two guidelines should suffice for tagging chemistry vs alchemy:
NWF_Renim said:
Images of chemistry should probably have depictions of chemistry sets composed of conventional equipment (ex: post #1036570, post #148737), chemistry concepts or parodies (ex: post #1613713, post #2312645, or post #9762), or chemical reaction formulas (ex: post #1732815).
NWF_Renim said:
Images of alchemy should be sort of be an exotic chemistry or magical fantasy chemistry, though they may include depictions of pre-chemistry. Depictions should have things like using exotic ingredients, like animal parts, whole plants/fungi, whole gems, or magical elements (ex: post #4318219, post #3296450, post #441230), especially lacking any visible means of processing them or are shown using said ingredients unprocessed. They should depict equipment no longer really used in chemistry, such as cauldrons (ex: post #2836187) or old style tomes, or they should depict the usage of the supernatural, such as magic, magic circles, or magical beings.
Though I would clarify pre-chemistry as in Medieval and Renaissance-style "pre-chemistry", and not just some shaman grinding herbs in a mortar and pestle (unless it's visibly magical or fantastical).
Anyhow, there may be some overlap between the two, e.g. someone with an 'alchemy' set-up and exotic fantastical materials... writing down modern chemical equations or drawing modern-style chemical structures; or a 'modern' alchemist using modern day tools but writing things down using alchemical symbols and notation. In such case tagging both alchemy and chemistry would be appropriate.
(There may also be some other esoteric 'in-jokes' or references to a particular subject material in the depicted text or speech or character actions that might also qualify for alchemy or chemistry, but generally only people 'into' both real-life subjects [i.e. not in the fantasy fiction sense] can catch those; so, shouldn't matter for the purposes of most taggers, and are unlikely to come up in images anyway.
e.g. Someone processing a substance in a particular way that only people with 'in-depth' knowledge of chemistry or alchemy will do, even if they are using unconventional tools and apparatuses.)
--
As for the professions.
Chemist is unnecessary. It's just going to be someone in a labcoat and/or goggles (and other protective gear) performing chemistry or standing in a lab being surrounded by chemistry glassware and other apparatuses. Tag those elements instead.
(There is an option to use the scientist tag on top, if appropriate.)
Alchemist... sigh... well, yep, this is another one of those "magic user" tags susceptible to 'canon-tagging' syndrome. Currently it's a mishmash, though most of it is seems to be Atelier characters and other fantasy 'alchemists'. Though there's also one post with Roy Mustang in it (see, canon-tagging!) Despite him being dressed up like a military officer.
Anyhow, most of the time, the 'fantasy alchemist' archetype will be dressed up like a fantasy mage (robes, hats, staves, other occult magic stuff, etc.), but with added stuff like vials or flasks or potion bandoliers/holsters or alchemical runes/sigils (instead of the usual vague magic sigils) to indicate that they an "alchemist" (Cagliostro) has those, along with golden flask-shaped ornaments).
I suppose there is some value in this tag, for people trying to look for fantasy alchemists, and fantasy "alchemists" as a whole tend to share multiple design features ('magey cloth and staff gear' then add potiony stuff and alchemical symbols on top) that can be defined, but trying to make sure other people tag this consistently for years to come might not going to be worth the effort. Especially because it's going to be highly susceptible to 'pollution' whenever a new popular game comes around with an "alchemist" character that encourages people to tag alchemist even if the character doesn't look visibly 'alchemisty'.
Might be better to consistently tag the flasks and potions and vials (and cauldrons, and alembics, and other alchemy paraphernalia) and search for those instead.
Overall, for alchemist in particular, this is... very similar to the current direction the discussion over at topic #18652 is heading. Those 'fantasy job archetypes' have distinguishable taggable elements, and there is some value in tagging them to help people find those examples, but most of the time it's probably impractical to expect people to tag them 'correctly', as it is highly susceptible to people just plopping down 'canon jobs' no matter their the character's actual appearance. Best thing to do is to tag those specific design elements instead of the overall 'profession'.
(Like how I came up with mystical high collar for the sorcerer archetype. And then try to tag feather_trim, mystical high collar, horned_headwear, revealing_clothes, tiara when they come up for the sorceress one.)
The current plan for those is probably to eventually move most of the "fantasy magic users" (sans witch and wizard) into one big catch-all mage tag, and then rely on mage + "specific design features/clothes/accessories" searches to find the archetype. Perhaps alchemist can be handled this way too, for characters like Cagliostro and Atelier alchemists.
Though only if people cares about alchemist enough (and it currently only has 30 tags). Trying to handle sorcerer/sorceress/mage is already a big headache.
Toctoc said:
Thank you for your cooperation C=
Is the smiley supposed to be a chemistry joke? If it is, I salute you.
