male_with_breasts

Use this tag when the character has no penis or testicles visible, otherwise it should be tagged as newhalf.

For the sake of transparency, I just removed this line from the wiki because it was added unilaterally & doesn't describe the way the tag is actually used.

I'd like to revive this thread because this tag is still tagging war bait and never really got addressed.

I agree with gfz that this tag would be more appropriate for characters that look obviously male, including manly characters and known male characters with breasts slapped on (an incomplete genderswap, basically). It gets tricky with otoko no ko characters because they tend to have feminine appearances even when undressed, so adding breasts on them would make them look no different from a futanari. We can use okoto_no_ko puffy_chest for when they have very small breasts since it will still be ambiguous whether they are actually female breasts or not, but anything medium and above should probably be tagged 1girl unless there is very strong evidence in the image showing otherwise (obviously, having a penis would not be sufficient for these characters).

On the other hand, I'm guessing one reason characters like Namine Ritsu are being tagged 1boy purely for canonical reasons is because some users would flip their lids after finding out a character they thought was a woman was actually a man the whole time. I'm not saying this is a good enough reason, but we can't deny something like this could negatively affect some of our userbase.

I think male_with_breasts shouldn't apply to characters that look like girls (female/futanari).
Right now it conflicts with tags like genderswap_(mtf) and futa_without_pussy whenever taggers interpret the character as male due to there being no evidence of female genitalia.
While there are ambiguous or unique cases, posts like post #8770872, post #8751464, and post #6309615 really shouldn't warrant that tag, especially when there are precedents where the same genderswap characters with breasts have already been tagged appropriately (post #8255726, post #3539262, post #4492305).
It also bloats male_focus searches with female/futanari content for no good reason.
Tags should reflect what is seen in the picture. Otherwise, cases of genderswap_(mtf) or futa_without_pussy would get erased by otoko_no_ko + male_with_breasts if left open to such an interpretation.

+1 for the "tag should go on obviously male characters only sentiment".
Speaking from an otoko no ko enjoyer perspective, seeing an otoko no ko with breasts is literally just "oh this is just a girl with a dick" in my eyes. It's not really what I signed up for when I look in the tag.

Ultexia said:

While there are ambiguous or unique cases, posts like post #8770872, post #8751464, and post #6309615 really shouldn't warrant that tag, especially when there are precedents where the same genderswap characters with breasts have already been tagged appropriately (post #8255726, post #3539262, post #4492305).

Those two Bridget posts are especially egregious, considering she has a specific clause about being tagged as a girl if evidence (ie. BREASTS) is provided. Like it's basically against tagging policy for her atp lol.

Blank_User said:

On the other hand, I'm guessing one reason characters like Namine Ritsu are being tagged 1boy purely for canonical reasons is because some users would flip their lids after finding out a character they thought was a woman was actually a man the whole time. I'm not saying this is a good enough reason, but we can't deny something like this could negatively affect some of our userbase.

Funny thing about Ritsu, his creator has gone on record stating that his gender is up for interpretation and also uses she/her pronouns when referring to Ritsu. His gender is another topic, but I felt like pointing it out.
https://x.com/canon_73/status/1138388631645708288
https://x.com/canon_73/status/1058485116601720832
https://x.com/canon_73/status/1160852342696058881

@Ultexia has just retagged a lot of male_with_breasts images as futanari. I think this should have been discussed here.

Some changes are clearly wrong. post #191800 depicts a manga character who is canonically a cross dressing man, and the translated speech clearly references him being a man. post #483123 is abundantly clear in the commentary about what is depicted.

Some changes I agree with. post #8913645 I think should be tagged as futanari. post #8168046 I think should be genderswap.

Stuff like post #4774078, I'm not sure.

This isn't really a topic I'm knowledgeable on or care all that much about, but I think this needs to be discussed more since many of those changes look wrong to me.

CoreMack said:

@Ultexia has just retagged a lot of male_with_breasts images as futanari. I think this should have been discussed here.

Some changes are clearly wrong. post #191800 depicts a manga character who is canonically a cross dressing man, and the translated speech clearly references him being a man. post #483123 is abundantly clear in the commentary about what is depicted.

Some changes I agree with. post #8913645 I think should be tagged as futanari. post #8168046 I think should be genderswap.

Stuff like post #4774078, I'm not sure.

This isn't really a topic I'm knowledgeable on or care all that much about, but I think this needs to be discussed more since many of those changes look wrong to me.

The only thing that should be discussed is if male_with_breasts is an appropriate tag for characters that would be tagged as female/futanari. It's a blatantly overused tag. Knowledge or supposed knowledge of a character is only useful in ambiguous cases.

Ultexia said:

The only thing that should be discussed is if male_with_breasts is an appropriate tag for characters that would be tagged as female/futanari. It's a blatantly overused tag. Knowledge or supposed knowledge of a character is only useful in ambiguous cases.

I actually very much agree that it's an overused tag and that characters with breasts should always presumptively be tagged as female/futa.

The problem comes with the images where a character has visible breasts, but the commentary or lore gives us an explanation for why they're male but still have breasts. E.g. there are images where the artist specifically mentions breast implants, fake breasts, or push up bras that can give men cleavage. Plus, it's simply a reality that many artists like to draw otokos with slightly puffy breasts. Some men IRL do in fact have such small puffy breasts.

So we can't take a blanket approach. You have to look carefully at each image.

CoreMack said:

I actually very much agree that it's an overused tag and that characters with breasts should always presumptively be tagged as female/futa.

The problem comes with the images where a character has visible breasts, but the commentary or lore gives us an explanation for why they're male but still have breasts. E.g. there are images where the artist specifically mentions breast implants, fake breasts, or push up bras that can give men cleavage. Plus, it's simply a reality that many artists like to draw otokos with slightly puffy breasts. Some men IRL do in fact have such small puffy breasts.

So we can't take a blanket approach. You have to look carefully at each image.

I mostly agree with you. Some artstyles can make it hard to make out and I mostly don't touch rather ambiguous cases. I think if the breasts look real it doesn't matter if they actually are or not unless the image itself makes it obvious, like here: post #3546130
I am very much against the idea of tagging based on knowledge over what can be actually seen since it erodes trust in the tagging system.
Would you tag an image as otoko_no_ko + cuntboy + male_with_breasts if an artist draws a girl and tells you it's a boy? otoko_no_ko + male_with_breasts conflicts with futanari and genderswap_(mtf) for no good reason. otoko_no_ko should be reserved for feminine looking males that clearly do not have breasts. There are also plenty of mistagged posts by artists themselves and tag editors shouldn't entertain such absurdities.

Look, I don't exactly upload male_with_breasts, and I agree with CM's assertion of overuse, but...

Ultexia said:

... I am very much against the idea of tagging based on knowledge over what can be actually seen since it erodes trust in the tagging system.

Well too bad, many weird artist decisions already force us to make assumptions for the tagging system to beu seful in the first place. As long as it doesn't conflicts with our tagging system in general (like combining yuri and futanari), we already defer to artists in many cases. If the artists says they've drawn a boy crossdressing, like in post #191800, we tag it as such.

ANON_TOKYO said:

Look, I don't exactly upload male_with_breasts, and I agree with CM's assertion of overuse, but...

Well too bad, many weird artist decisions already force us to make assumptions for the tagging system to beu seful in the first place. As long as it doesn't conflicts with our tagging system in general (like combining yuri and futanari), we already defer to artists in many cases. If the artists says they've drawn a boy crossdressing, like in post #191800, we tag it as such.

What the artist says is irrelevant if it clashes with what can be actually observed. yui_toshiki's other character hanabusu_arisu is tagged as girl since there is nothing that suggests otherwise in the images themselves. I don't consider these mistagged just because the breasts are canonically fake.

Ultexia said:

What the artist says is irrelevant if it clashes with what can be actually observed. yui_toshiki's other character hanabusu_arisu is tagged as a girl since there is nothing that suggests otherwise in the images themselves.

Well, that was mostly me applying TWYS since there wasn't anything visually to support the character being tagged as male, since the breasts don't look even remotely like padding (and are still very much present nude).

I do generally agree with you overall, but I wouldn't use this as precedent when it was just one person (in this case me) retagging those.

Ultexia said:

I am very much against the idea of tagging based on knowledge over what can be actually seen since it erodes trust in the tagging system.

That's a nice sentiment and all but that would mean a very very good chunk of sfw Astolfo posts would qualify as 1girl -breasts androgynous instead of 1boy crossdressing otoko_no_ko so if you want to untangle that mess, good luck and expect a lot of resistance from the other users on this site. not me though i dont touch astolfo gender discourse im too cisgender

Ultexia said:

What the artist says is irrelevant if it clashes with what can be actually observed.

This is correct. TWYS beats artist intent when the two conflict. We defer to the artist only so far as our tagging system allows. But when it doesn't contradict what's visually present, then we follow canon when it comes to gender.

Ultexia said:
yui_toshiki's other character hanabusu_arisu is tagged as girl since there is nothing that suggests otherwise in the images themselves. I don't consider these mistagged just because the breasts are canonically fake.

I'm honestly not sure what we should do with that character, I'm not at all convinced the current approach is correct. Currently they're all tagged as 1girl + genderswap_(mtf), but they've been changed back and forth a lot over the years. I don't think that should be used as any kind of precedent.

CoreMack said:

This is correct. TWYS beats artist intent when the two conflict. We defer to the artist only so far as our tagging system allows. But when it doesn't contradict what's visually present, then we follow canon when it comes to gender.

I'm honestly not sure what we should do with that character, I'm not at all convinced the current approach is correct. Currently they're all tagged as 1girl + genderswap_(mtf), but they've been changed back and forth a lot over the years. I don't think that should be used as any kind of precedent.

I'm not sure the genderswap tag is correct either, tbh, I just added it on the assumption that the character is canonically male. I don't know much about the character themselves but quite a few of those posts seem to actually be tagged newhalf at the source.

Comments say the character canonically grows breasts so honestly I feel like the genderswap tag could be dropped. Also not sure why they have two tags when there are no posts of them outside this alter ego.

Trouble_Windows said:

I'm not sure the genderswap tag is correct either, tbh, I just added it on the assumption that the character is canonically male. I don't know much about the character themselves but quite a few of those posts seem to actually be tagged newhalf at the source.

Comments say the character canonically grows breasts so honestly I feel like the genderswap tag could be dropped. Also not sure why they have two tags when there are no posts of them outside this alter ego.

IIRC, they use fake breasts, then get implants, then their implants start naturally growing larger of their own accord? It's porn, it's not really supposed to make sense. I don't think any of our tags are a perfect fit. Also the alter ego tag is pointless, yes.

Ylimegirl said:

That's a nice sentiment and all but that would mean a very very good chunk of sfw Astolfo posts would qualify as 1girl -breasts androgynous instead of 1boy crossdressing otoko_no_ko so if you want to untangle that mess, good luck and expect a lot of resistance from the other users on this site. not me though i dont touch astolfo gender discourse im too cisgender

I didn't mean to suggest that. Right now, an otoko_no_ko's lack of breasts is the only reason for not tagging them as female despite how indistinguishable they are from a flat-chested girl/futanari otherwise. The inclusion of breasts, however, erases that ambiguity regardless of what is supposedly known.

Trouble_Windows said:

I'm not sure the genderswap tag is correct either, tbh, I just added it on the assumption that the character is canonically male. I don't know much about the character themselves but quite a few of those posts seem to actually be tagged newhalf at the source.

Comments say the character canonically grows breasts so honestly I feel like the genderswap tag could be dropped. Also not sure why they have two tags when there are no posts of them outside this alter ego.

I think you handled it well. As for other examples, agawa_ryou's kirihara_torajyuro_tatsumune isn't considered male here against the artist's weird suggestion. You shouldn't require a permission in order to tag the obvious. I thought people understood that.

Ultexia said:

I think you handled it well. As for other examples, agawa_ryou's kirihara_torajyuro_tatsumune isn't considered male here against the artist's weird suggestion. You shouldn't require a permission in order to tag the obvious. I thought people understood that.

Yes, at a certain point an artist's assertion that "this is man" is so implausible given what the image depicts that we have to tag it as a woman. kirihara_torajyuro_tatsumune is physically identical to what we tag as a futanari (otherwise female body, with the addition of a dick), but they identify as a man. Gender identity is irrelevant to tagging when it contradicts the image, so we tag them as what they physically are: 1girl futanari. hanabusu_arisu is a bit more complex because at least at some points in the lore, they're a man using fake breasts. But as I said, I'm not sure which option is best for them.

CoreMack said:

Yes, at a certain point an artist's assertion that "this is man" is so implausible given what the image depicts that we have to tag it as a woman. kirihara_torajyuro_tatsumune is physically identical to what we tag as a futanari (otherwise female body, with the addition of a dick), but they identify as a man. Gender identity is irrelevant to tagging when it contradicts the image, so we tag them as what they physically are: 1girl futanari. hanabusu_arisu is a bit more complex because at least at some points in the lore, they're a man using fake breasts. But as I said, I'm not sure which option is best for them.

It matters little who the character is or how they became who they are because they're all drawings. A feminine appearance and the presence of breasts deny any possibility in justifying male tags from an objective perspective.

post #9082976 getting edit warred wrt this it seems...

i suppose the question is "do child posts count as enough context for tagging"