A Consistent Standard For Separating Disney Adaptation Copyrights from their Original Copyrights

In Danbooru's earlier years, tagging standards weren't as unified as they are now, and the various copyrights and characters of the Disney Animated Canon are casualties of those times. There is no consistency in how the Disney adaptations are tagged in relation to to the works they're based on. Snow White would have separate tags for both copyrights and characters (snow_white / snow_white_(grimm) and snow_white_and_the_seven_dwarfs / snow_white_(disney), The Little Mermaid would have separate characters under the same copyright tag (the_little_mermaid and the_little_mermaid_(andersen) / ariel_(disney)), and then you have Alice in Wonderland where there's no effort to make a separate tag for the Disney designs. And then you have inconsistencies in inconsistencies like The_Hunchback_of_Notre_Dame having esmeralda_(disney) and la_esmeralda but only one claude_frollo.

My question is this: how do we consistently tag the Disney versions from the original or other adaptations separately? Should only character tags be split, only copyright tags be split, both be split, or something more radically different? Will it be a case by case basis?

I say split. Random pics of Ariel (Disney) and references to the original (bloody) fairytale, barring darker interpretations based on said tale, should not be anywhere near each other.

I think The Little Mermaid (Disney), for example, as a standard would be good. The original can be left for the classic fairytales (or the OG story, in cases of The Hunchback of Notre Dame). That way, people can look at pics referencing fairytales as opposed to the Disney characters (and vice versa) in peace.

But how should it be split? I ask for a consistent method unless it is truly a case by case basis. You seem to propose just splitting the copyright tags.

Both the copytags and chartags should be split, imo. The Disney characters are their own unique designs and an unqualified tag should exist for any designs that clearly aren't the Disney version; this should apply to things like cosplaying as well, of course.

I tried to split Little Mermaid a while ago with forum #295792 but it never went anywhere. We should absolutely have a seperate tag for the Fairy Tales and novels.

For any splits, just remember to also update all relevant wikis after, especially Disney.

BUR #39166 has been rejected.

create alias eric_(disney) -> eric_(the_little_mermaid_(1989))
create alias vanessa_(disney) -> vanessa_(the_little_mermaid_(1989))
create alias pocahontas -> pocahontas_(1995)
create alias mulan -> mulan_(1998)
create alias aladdin_(disney) -> aladdin_(1992_disney_film)
create alias aladdin_(character) -> aladdin_(1992_disney_character)

Gonna get things started with tags that have to be better qualified to prevent conflicts and ambiguity. The movies will have the dates of their release as their qualifiers. Title characters of those movies will be qualified with those copyright tags as their qualifiers. Some of these copyrights may have to be split by hand or disambiguated though (e.g. Cinderella, The Hunchback of Notre Dame). This the approach I can come up for now.

And I'm sure I'm missing some tags so post some that I'm missing here.

Wouldn't it just be easier to have _(disney) as the qualifier? We already have tags with both copyrights and characters with that as a qualifier for instance snow_white_(disney) and peter_pan_(disney).

Given the original stories are public domain works and there are hundreds of adaptations for some of them just having the date doesn't exactly tell you it's the Disney version at a glance.

That's also why I made this thread. I don't really know how the tags should be qualified to separate them from the others. I feel like making a BUR is the only way to jumpstart this conversation. Also, you have to take into consideration the Disney live-action remakes.

Knowledge_Seeker said:

I think The Little Mermaid (Disney), for example, as a standard would be good. The original can be left for the classic fairytales (or the OG story, in cases of The Hunchback of Notre Dame). That way, people can look at pics referencing fairytales as opposed to the Disney characters (and vice versa) in peace.

I agree with splitting the original works and the Disney adaptations into their own separate tags.

Maybe this is getting a bit too deep in the weeds, but what if someone wanted to search for all depictions of one of these classic archetypal characters regardless of which copyright/adaptation of the stories they came from? (This goes beyond just the Original vs. Disney adaptations) Is there a case for having some higher level, copyright agnostic versions of these tags in addition to the copyright specific ones? For example, if someone wanted to search for any version of Alice from Alice in Wonderland, should there be a tag that would allow them to see all of these posts in the same search?

post #2344718
post #4675057
post #5640832
post #2383764
post #8728233

TenaciousTurtleDucks said:

Maybe this is getting a bit too deep in the weeds, but what if someone wanted to search for all depictions of one of these classic archetypal characters regardless of which copyright/adaptation of the stories they came from? (This goes beyond just the Original vs. Disney adaptations) Is there a case for having some higher level, copyright agnostic versions of these tags in addition to the copyright specific ones? For example, if someone wanted to search for any version of Alice from Alice in Wonderland, should there be a tag that would allow them to see all of these posts in the same search?

post #2344718
post #4675057
post #5640832
post #2383764
post #8728233

Starting to veer off-track here but for miss Alice specifically danbooru could maybe benefit from some sort of Alice allusion gentag, since it's such a commonly identifiable motif. (Conversation for another forum thread though.)

tapnek said:

BUR #39166 has been rejected.

create alias eric_(disney) -> eric_(the_little_mermaid_(1989))
create alias vanessa_(disney) -> vanessa_(the_little_mermaid_(1989))
create alias pocahontas -> pocahontas_(1995)
create alias mulan -> mulan_(1998)
create alias aladdin_(disney) -> aladdin_(1992_disney_film)
create alias aladdin_(character) -> aladdin_(1992_disney_character)

Gonna get things started with tags that have to be better qualified to prevent conflicts and ambiguity. The movies will have the dates of their release as their qualifiers. Title characters of those movies will be qualified with those copyright tags as their qualifiers. Some of these copyrights may have to be split by hand or disambiguated though (e.g. Cinderella, The Hunchback of Notre Dame). This the approach I can come up for now.

And I'm sure I'm missing some tags so post some that I'm missing here.

God no, not the nested parentheses. I understand you're trying to distinguish between the live-action remakes and the originals there, but odds are most art on here is for the originals, so those should be the default (disney) qualifier tags. The live-action remake can get a (live-action disney) qualifier or something.

Ylimegirl said:

God no, not the nested parentheses. I understand you're trying to distinguish between the live-action remakes and the originals there, but odds are most art on here is for the originals, so those should be the default (disney) qualifier tags. The live-action remake can get a (live-action disney) qualifier or something.

Do the live action ones even need character tags? I feel like just using the copytag would be fine enough, even for those who would want to exclude them from their search, ala ariel_(disney) -the_little_mermaid_(2023).

BUR #39211 has been approved by @nonamethanks.

rename pocahontas -> pocahontas_(movie)
rename mulan -> mulan_(movie)
create alias aladdin_(disney) -> aladdin_(movie)
remove alias aladdin_(disney) -> aladdin_(movie)
category aladdin_(disney) -> character
rename aladdin_(character) -> aladdin_(disney)

Alternate proposal. Unlike Wikipedia, which has to account for multiple productions with only one name, here on Danbooru the major ones are going to be the Disney ones, so we don't need to disambiguate with anything more than just a (movie) qualifier (which I believe is the more used qualifier over (film)). For Aladdin, we're giving the movie the (movie) qualifier, while the (disney) qualifier can go to the character, following the practice done for other characters.

Damian0358 said:

Do the live action ones even need character tags? I feel like just using the copytag would be fine enough, even for those who would want to exclude them from their search, ala ariel_(disney) -the_little_mermaid_(2023).

For the characters, no, but the films may need additional qualifiers, a la (disney) and (2023 remake). You can see the year-as-qualifier for some of the other films in the initial BUR, which is absurd.

Ylimegirl said:

For the characters, no, but the films may need additional qualifiers, a la (disney) and (2023 remake). You can see the year-as-qualifier for some of the other films in the initial BUR, which is absurd.

We can tell with that after the animated movies get new qualifiers, just so we don't get bogged down arguing whether the_little_mermaid_(1989) or the_little_mermaid_(disney) is better to account for the_little_mermaid_(2023) when the remake tag would still count for the base Little Mermaid Disney copytag - so that arguing ultimately boils down to "do we want to have a separate tag for the original movie and arbitrarily divide it from the remake stuff without a shared parent copytag".

Ylimegirl said:

Starting to veer off-track here but for miss Alice specifically danbooru could maybe benefit from some sort of Alice allusion gentag, since it's such a commonly identifiable motif. (Conversation for another forum thread though.)

Oh god, I'd love an "Alice Allusion" tag. Stupidly common motif in art, and not always have things to do with Alice in Wonderland. Was disappointed to find no such tag existed, even.

As for the topic at hand, I have nothing really to add. I think, baring a few important exceptions, "Disney" works as a qualifier.

Ylimegirl said:

Starting to veer off-track here but for miss Alice specifically danbooru could maybe benefit from some sort of Alice allusion gentag, since it's such a commonly identifiable motif. (Conversation for another forum thread though.

Might want to make that thread then because I have no idea how that can be pulled off here.

BUR #39667 has been approved by @nonamethanks.

create alias peter_pan_(disney) -> walt_disney's_peter_pan
remove alias peter_pan_(disney) -> walt_disney's_peter_pan
category peter_pan_(disney) -> character

To build off the examples in the OP, Peter Pan's an awkward case where you have two copytags (the one in this BUR and the non-Disney Peter Pan) and two separate chartags for Tinker Bell (Tinker Bell (Disney) and Tinker Bell (Character)), but only one tag for Peter Pan himself (Peter Pan (Character). However, the copytag's name isn't exactly the easiest thing to rename if we wanted to use the Disney qualifier for the Disney character.

I'm going to try and suggest the name given in the theatrical poster when it released in 1953 for the copytag, since it frees up the tag for a Disney Peter Pan chartag, and it avoids one of the awkwardnesses of using (movie) or especially ([year]_movie), and that is the fact that often times Disney does more than just the original movie, such as direct-to-home-media sequels, TV shows, remakes, etc.

There is the question though of how to disambiguate Peter Pan as a character though, since it feels like it's way more common to use the Disney design for him than it is for Tinker Bell (which justifies giving her a non-Disney chartag). Someone's going to have to garden the Peter Pan tags regardless of whether this BUR passes.

BUR #39668 has been approved by @nonamethanks.

mass update the_little_mermaid_(andersen) -> copy:Andersen's_fairy_tales -the_little_mermaid
create alias the_little_mermaid -> the_little_mermaid_(disney)
remove alias the_little_mermaid -> the_little_mermaid_(disney)

With the Little Mermaid, Andersen's version of the character does not have a name, so her current chartag, which would be the ideal copytag, is literally the best we can do unless we want to add _(character) at the end. So I'm going to propose we go with the Grimm's Fairy Tales approach, and make an Andersen's Fairy Tales, based on the fact that the original story appeared in his book "Fairy Tales Told for Children".

If we go through with this, we could correspondingly clean up Thumbelina/Thumbelina (Character)/Thumbelina (Character) (Cosplay), by giving the copytag's wiki to the character tag, nuking the copytag in favor of the Andersen copytag, and rename the chartag to Thumbelina (Andersen) (maybe also do something about Thumbelina (1994)/Thumbelina (Thumbelina (1994)), because that chartag...)

BUR #39670 has been approved by @nonamethanks.

rename robin_hood_(disney) -> robin_hood_(disney_movie)
rename robin_hood_(disney)_(character) -> robin_hood_(disney_character)

This isn't exactly separating since it's already properly separated, but like, this just cleans it up and provides another qualifier choice for more awkward cases (like if we choose not to go with my above suggestion for Peter Pan and instead go with peter_pan_(disney_movie)/peter_pan_(disney_character), or we do go with it but go with peter_pan_(disney_character) for the character instead of peter_pan_(disney)).