Danbooru and subscriptions

memegui said:
I have to say, no matter how inconvenient it is for you or the server you should never ever ever restrict the favorites to 100 or any number for that matter, it basically destroys the whole point of using Danbooru, you favorite something to see it later instead of saving it to your hard drive.

If you have more than 100 favorites, then you use this site often enough to decide whether or not $20 is worth your money. Seeing 10 pages of every search is enough to decide whether or not $20 is worth your money. Being able to explore Danbooru's tagging engine with two tags is enough to decide whether or not $20 is worth your money. This is the only reason I'm adding these limitations, casual users should have no major issues with these crippled features (many of them don't keep favorites at all). Heavy users like you must make a decision: are these features worth $20 to me?

There are workarounds to these limitations, but they're all clunky.

You can use pools to circumvent the favorite limit, but the interface isn't as streamlined, you'd still be limited to 10 pages, and any future data mining I do will be based off of favorites.

If you're doing a single tag search, you can use the id metatag to do your own pagination. Again, this is clunky compared to just clicking the page link. But if you think the opportunity cost of all this extra effort is less than $20, more power to you. I won't stop you unless everyone else starts doing it (I predict they won't because either they're casual users and don't care or they're willing to pay a one time $20 fee).

Actually now that I think about it, I will probably drop the page limit. I don't know of any other sites that enforce that sort of limitation, and I don't like the Danbooru-owns-this-content message it sends.

albert said:
Actually now that I think about it, I will probably drop the page limit. I don't know of any other sites that enforce that sort of limitation, and I don't like the Danbooru-owns-this-content message it sends.

I was wondering about that, actually. I've seen a number of images on here that are from paysites (some that are owned by the artists themselves). if a payment system is implemented to Danbooru, I imagine it would cause some unnecessary trouble from artists/paysite owners that feel you're profiting from their images, if they found out about it.

After reading through 6 pages and 1 post; I don't know where to place my feelings.

As with most lame people, I'm poor, and I'd rather not expose my credit card information online. So, if CCBill, or any other credit card based payment processor is used, chances are, I'd be neglected to pay. On the other hand, I completely understand how PayPal discriminates against adult sites and other crap, so not choosing them is also a perfectly justifiable choice.

One concern I have is with the favorites... what happens when this system is implemented, and if I already have more than 100 favorites? Will they be discarded? Will I be able to keep them even if I don't pay? Will I be able to add more, despite I already have more than 100?

Though, the biggest concern I have is probably still the API... I've reported a problem via dmail er... "2 months ago" according to the system... and it was never responded, and it seems to be still working. Now, assuming if Albert does go ahead with the pay for more access thing (well, 10 page limit is gone now, so maybe not as much problem?), what's there to stop people from making extensive use of the API to evade the limits imposed, so that those who pay doesn't complain?

MM23 said:
...only to find some privileged member with 50,000 posts (and an average of like, 300 a day) uploaded it no less than 3 minutes before me.

There's a reason we call thetruth thebot. His posting habits are inhuman.

albert said:
Heavy users like you must make a decision: are these features worth $20 to me?

For me is worth enough

What i really like about be a privileged is the unlimited post for day and and not have to wait for the approval

I'm not the smartest guy around, but I think I agree with with some of the various things memegui, MM23, and some others have said already. I just don't feel comfy with paying for an image site. The favorites feature is a big reason why I even come here, as it allows me to save and sort plenty of images way extremely well. As so many others have pointed out, it would be easy to exploit and get around. And I'd actually try to contribute some (good) stuff if I hadn't known about the moderation madness that several people go through because some other Tom, Harry, or Dickhead, is already a Privileged Übermensch.

Making this place pay-to-play (so to speak) would just further kill my enjoyingment altogether, as I literally have little to no money on a tight budget.

If you make this place requiring pay (for whatever reason/feature), please have something up in a week or two in advance like you did when the sever was supposed to move a while back ago so we can brace for impact...

SHUMA-GORATH said:
Making this place pay-to-play (so to speak) would just further kill my enjoyingment altogether, as I literally have little to no money on a tight budget.

I agree. I don't have money (let alone a credit card account) to pay for a subscription just to be here, so I'm against any mode of payment for just using a site, especially for a frequent contributor like myself.

To me, it makes more sense to keep the ads and the 503s, and have people pay to circumvent them. It's more or less directly paying for what you use, either by suffering through ads or by means of a fee.

chiisana said:
One concern I have is with the favorites... what happens when this system is implemented, and if I already have more than 100 favorites? Will they be discarded? Will I be able to keep them even if I don't pay? Will I be able to add more, despite I already have more than 100?

You'd keep them, wouldn't be able to add more unless you deleted a bunch.

Though, the biggest concern I have is probably still the API... I've reported a problem via dmail er... "2 months ago" according to the system... and it was never responded, and it seems to be still working. Now, assuming if Albert does go ahead with the pay for more access thing (well, 10 page limit is gone now, so maybe not as much problem?), what's there to stop people from making extensive use of the API to evade the limits imposed, so that those who pay doesn't complain?

The issue you raised with the loli posts (I think) was something I ignored because the advertisers don't really care about stuff that isn't directly visible on the site. AFAIK, no one created a site to download and view the loli posts.

Things like capping favorites are easily handled in the model so even through the API you'd be limited.

After doing some stats, here are the fav counts for basic users. Percentage of total users given in parens.

0: 47868 (92.2%)
1..100: 4094 (7.8%)
100..200: 366 (0.7%)
200..300: 147 (0.3%)
300..400: 83 (0.2%)
400..500: 56 (0.1%)
500..1000: 143 (0.3%)
1000+: 159 (0.3%)

So I think 100 is a fair number to cut off at. Would raising it to 200 really be any better?

No cut will be better. Users will always reach the limit and when they do it's all over. It's the same as not having favorites to begin with.

It may not be as convenient, but I can't see how setting a limit of X favorites would be the same as a limit of 0 favorites. It would just mean you would need to evaluate how much the feature is worth to you and decide if it's worth the one-time fee. If it's not you'll still have the feature, but would need to be more judicious with its use. I'm sure you would be happier with 100 or 200 favorites rather than none at all.

albert said:
You'd keep them, wouldn't be able to add more unless you deleted a bunch.

Awesome. I wouldn't mind so much then... I guess just need to start saving things more frequently

The issue you raised with the loli posts (I think) was something I ignored because the advertisers don't really care about stuff that isn't directly visible on the site. AFAIK, no one created a site to download and view the loli posts.

I created a crappy greasemonkey script based off of endless-danbooru to see all posts almost per normal... Only thing I can't do is add translations / view translations on things I can't normally see; which doesn't bother me a whole lot since I can read Japanese. Of course, the script is not shared with anyone, and I have no intention to do so either; but the problem boils back down to things like this causes you to use bandwidth (and arguably server resources depending on how little cache API is using)... which is an added expense all site operators (IE: myself) do not want.

albert said:
After doing some stats, here are the fav counts for basic users. Percentage of total users given in parens.

0: 47868 (92.2%)
1..100: 4094 (7.8%)
100..200: 366 (0.7%)
200..300: 147 (0.3%)
300..400: 83 (0.2%)
400..500: 56 (0.1%)
500..1000: 143 (0.3%)
1000+: 159 (0.3%)

One thing I wonder is how many of the 0's are actually active users (IE: even visited once in the last ... gee... 5 month?), versus guests that doesn't register, but comes in more regularly. As things stand now, there is no real added incentive to register unless people want to try to work towards a priv'ed account. Anonymous can comment, can view things -- maybe not pending approval stuff, but not really that much different from registered members -- and can view translation notes. Sure, registering they can edit tags, create pools, and have their own favorites; but as leecher, why'd they care about editing tags or editing pools or editing translation notes? Favorites can be done in browser or downloaded into their HD, too.

So I think 100 is a fair number to cut off at. Would raising it to 200 really be any better?

Raising it to 200 will entertain the 0.7% -- or how many ever the more accurate percentage based on active 0 post / 0 fav members, and guests -- of people (myself included), but I don't think it'll make much of a difference, because then those from 200 to 300 scope would have a reason to complain, and then so on and so forth. I think if you've decided on a number, then you might as well stick with it.

On the other hand, I wonder how many of the 100+ fav people are like me, just member, and not priv'ed already... *shrugs*

I had a look at some of my stats. If it's 20 per page, then I have 75 favs. All of them are saved on my images drive which I can access from anywhere in the world. If I needed to, I could cut out about 60 of them just because they were favourites when I saw them but now they don't make the cut. My hard drive sorting system allows me to find pics quickly and easily, even among my crazy-huge Nanoha and Touhou folders.

So from my perspective 100 seems like more than enough. Especially since I've already lost Danbooru once and there's no reason it won't happen again.

As far as the cost goes, I think it's really cheap. Far far cheaper than most online games. And I'm hard pressed for cash too but in truth if you can't raise $20 with this much advance notice I don't know how you can live. Mow a lawn. Sell some old stuff. Do favours for friends or neighbours. I've had problems making a quick $100 or more, but making $20 over a long period of time is extremely simple. Hell, just cut down on the energy drinks or samosas or whatever you buy.

Due to bad credit I use a titaniumplus mastercard. They didn't even check my credit history and you don't go in debt with it. You just put money on it and that's what you have. A buddy of mine used his once (to buy something online) and then cut it up. And if you're too young to get such a thing you shouldn't be at the site to begin with because of it's content. I know these types of card also exist in numerous other countries too.

I have a problem with it being a subscription and not a donation (which is why I suggested having both) but I see absolutely no reason why people can't pay. If you don't have a 1-time spare $20, stop browsing the site day in and day out for a while and go make $20. It's really not hard because it's such a small amount of money.

I don't really care about anything other than post moderation and the server throttling. As long as those are gone, I'll happily throw down some money, and I'm sure other people will too. Loli posts being visible would be preferred, I don't see why not, if you're willing to pay.

I could care less about ads (hell, I'd leave them up as a sign of goodwill) or any other issues (favorites limiting, blah blah). I use danbooru enough that I think giving something back is certainly justifiable.

And seriously, subscription, donation, it's all semantics. There are sites that basically say "you can't use any special features unless you donate!"

s/donate/subscribe/g

Post moderation is going nowhere. That would be the single worst thing that could happen to Danbooru.

And seriously, subscription, donation, it's all semantics. There are sites that basically say "you can't use any special features unless you donate!"

s/donate/subscribe/g

Well subscription implies a monthly fee. At least it wouldn't be as bad as museum "donations."

Then stop ignoring posts by non-privileged users on purpose then reuploading them later.

You take the idea of a fun, community-driven Japanese art website and turn it into elitism.

If a couple paid users end up submitting loads of shit, take away their unmoderated post privileges. Otherwise, don't punish the entirety of the userbase simply because of the actions of a few. It's unjustified and a pretty fucking prick thing to do.

I really don't see how 20 users holding an absolute monopoly over posting privileges is supposed to help anything.

albert said:
- One time fee to upgrade to privileged status (probably $20)

It wouldn't be a monthly fee. I suppose if the site were in dire straights Albert could ask for another donation, but I believe his intent is to make this a one-time thing.

MM23 said:
And seriously, subscription, donation, it's all semantics. There are sites that basically say "you can't use any special features unless you donate!"

s/donate/subscribe/g

In some countries paying a fee for a site with loli content can land you in assrape central. And Bubba might be in prison for loli, but he'd be more than happy with his new cellmate regardless of his age and gender. EEK!

In a lot of legal stuff, one word change is all it takes to keep you under the radar. It's all the same, really, but it's like piracy. If you download 500 games, cops likely won't bug you. But if you sell 500 pirated games they'll be more likely to notice.

Actually, it would be cool if users could select certain features to stay locked even after paying. I don't know how hard that would be to impliment but Albert seems to know what he's doing so I figure it wouldn't be difficult to do.