See forum #22541
Although I think one-piece_swimsuit is in a much better position than it was 10 months ago. I'm personally for the implication. Might even want to throw in competition_swimsuit while we're at it.
Posted under General
See forum #22541
Although I think one-piece_swimsuit is in a much better position than it was 10 months ago. I'm personally for the implication. Might even want to throw in competition_swimsuit while we're at it.
Currently no such design is yielded from a search through school_swimsuit bikini chartags:1 or school_swimsuit bikini chartags:2. Beyond that you're just begging for group images. It's theoretically possible to have a nametag on the front of a bikini top and such, but out of a pool of about 10,000 posts the one or two exceptions that might pop up are rather insignificant.
That doesn't sound right. If it is themed after a school swimsuit, even has the label, and is a two-piece, why can't it be labeled as a school_swimsuit?
I'm worried about the information loss if we do the implications. The one-piece_swimsuit tag is largely used for casual swimsuits, and adding school_swimsuit and competition_swimsuit would smother this.
Admittedly there is some information loss. If you're searching for one-piece_swimsuit -school_swimsuit -competition_swimsuit you get whatever's left over, but you end up excluding groups with casual swimsuits mixed in with school/competition swimsuits.
...Does anyone really care? We could always make a casual_swimsuit tag for the purpose if so. As it is, it's often ambiguous whether to choose between school_swimsuit or one-piece_swimsuit. It certainly makes sense for those images to simply have both. Same goes for competition_swimsuit.
To me, the existance of the sukumizu_flap tag proves that school swimsuits are not one-piece swimsuits. EDIT: Maybe not. I realize I don't know the outfit's ins and outs. Feel free to prove me wrong.
Shinjidude said:
I just have a hard time visualizing how a two piece would evoke the school swimsuit look properly. I suppose it might be possible.
The term (one-piece_swimsuit) itself is certainly evocotive of an umbrella tag, and has acquired such a wiki definition since the initial discussion. To be sure there are already quite a few using it as such (one-piece_swimsuit school_swimsuit chartags:<2) and (one-piece_swimsuit competition_swimsuit chartags:<2), diluting the tag's usefulness for member status searches of casual swimwear. We may as well take the final step and make the implications, and create a new tag for casuals. Though I suggested casual swimsuit in the linked forum, it's not exactly intuitive the tag should be used only for one-piece examples of recreational swimwear, but I'm hard pressed to come up with a more descriptive tag that's not unwieldy.
The school suits with the sukumizu flap are indeed one-pieces (see comentary on post #169386).
Just because there are some people using them in that manner, doesn't in itself warrant that it should be used in that manner.
A merger is a poor choice, as once they're all combined over 73% of the images under it will be school_swimsuits. 7530 out of a total of 10302 images will be school swimsuits. Since I also believe that a school swimsuit might have the possibility of being a non-one piece, having the implication will just be problematic, no matter how overall accurate it is. Similar to how the miko tag implying Japanese clothing has really only succeeded in putting a lot of non-Japanese clothing images under the Japanese clothes tag. Also only a measly 4% of school_swimsuit images currently share the one-piece_swimsuit tag, so if you want to go with how people are using the tag, a lot more from this perspective prefer them separate.
It's of my opinion that if you still really want school_swimsuit as under one-piece swimsuit, do it manually.
NWF_Renim said:
A merger is a poor choice, as once they're all combined over 73% of the images under it will be school_swimsuits. 7530 out of a total of 10302 images will be school swimsuits.
By this logic bikini shouldn't implicate swimsuit because, at 62% of all swimsuit posts, it drowns out non-bikini swimsuits. I don't buy it. We have many implications where one sub-tag makes up a majority of posts under the umbrella tag: bra -> lingerie, china_dress -> chinese_clothes, sword -> weapon, open_shirt -> open_clothes, etc.
Since I also believe that a school swimsuit might have the possibility of being a non-one piece, having the implication will just be problematic, no matter how overall accurate it is.
Mere speculation that there might be a counter-example hidden among thousands of posts should hardly disqualify the implication. Until someone actually finds one, this is a completely hypothetical concern. And even if one exists, a single mistagged post is not a big deal.
I was thinking about this very thing about a day ago and noted that if you go through one-piece, you find a lot of things that look to be school_swimsuits or competition_swimsuits. Never mind that in some cases a competition swimsuit is the school swimsuit, so there's some overlap no matter how many people we educate (this doesn't excuse people or mean to imply that either is poorly defined). Note that I was actually trying to find casual swimwear and largely failing, so I feel that doing nothing is also not a great option.
Oh, just thought of this. Juxtapose the two parts: casual_one-piece. Sort of clunky, but there can be no doubt as to what it refers to.
All one-piece_swimsuits should be tagged as such. Because thats what they are.
We should then divide them into the apparently three most common subcategories, school_swimsuit (and that is defined specifically as ones like post #673486 NOT post #673280), competition_swimsuit and whatever the new tag is, casual_one-piece_swimsuit would be most accurate, I guess.
Anyway, part of this needs to be defining school_swimsuit specifically as the "classic" one (which is what the fetish really is) and does not include "Casual" swimsuits which happen to be blue or black.
evazion said:
Mere speculation that there might be a counter-example hidden among thousands of posts should hardly disqualify the implication. Until someone actually finds one, this is a completely hypothetical concern. And even if one exists, a single mistagged post is not a big deal.
post #27115 is likely a school_swimsuit that is a two piece. Not a perfect example, as this could very well be a photoshop of post #5390. My major goal is that the implication shouldn't happen, because it removes all wiggle room that exceptions exist. Sure you can go and say that some mistagged minor images are fine, but that comes at the expense of even being able to find such rare examples.
The not a big deal part is rather disheartening. How are you going to find this image when it's mistagged? It's themed as a school_uniform, but it's in two pieces. You can't perform a school_swimsuit -one-piece_swimsuit search, and you're going get a lot of noise performing a bikini school_swimsuit search. In the end, most people aren't ever going to find it, nor even know such a thing exists. In the quest for easiness, you end up destroying the ability to find oddities. So you'll have to forgive me if I think that "not a big deal" is a big deal.
Thankful this had the tag body_writing or I'd never have found it again, but post #121286 I'm also pretty sure is in the style of a school swimsuit, given the seam in the top, coloration, and fact that they're writing her name and class number on her body. There is also post #533637, which might simply be the swimsuit cut in two.
There are also cases where the bottom is very likely completely separate from the top: post #198588, post #430122, post #628914.
While these examples won't argue against the one-piece_swimsuit tag, they do serve the purpose of showing that there can be more than one style called a school_swimsuit: post #244992, and post #339400.
School swimsuits would be far less than 73% of an umbrella one-piece_swimsuit once all the competition swimsuit and casual swimsuit (and possibly sling bikini considering it's wiki definition, though I'm not so inclined) implications are made. There are literally hundreds of untagged casuals currently buried as simply swimsuit which are almost impossible for a regular user to get at right now (swimsuit -bikini -school_swimsuit -one-piece_swimsuit -sling_bikini -competition_swimsuit). Especially so if we determine that only the old-fashioned style suits are what we consider to be school-type (which would presumably make the low side-cut, thin strap types competition swimsuits).
As you say, none of the examples you cite would have been made more difficult to find if the implications were in place, tagged as they are. So we tag them two-piece_school_swimsuit and call it a day with the knowledge that canonical school swimsuits are all going to be one-pieces?
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