Shipgirls don't have rights. Just look what happened to Enterprise after getting so much awards.
You speak to the crew of the Enterprise when they were alive, and they would quite clearly tell you that her scrapping was exactly what they wanted for her. They didn't want 'snot nosed brats' running around putting hands on the lady in and out and wrecking her remains, her strung up somewhere like a stuffed animal to be ogled at. So, it can be argued that the soul of a ship are her fighting men, and if so, it's what she wanted.
The Iowas' crews however? 'Put 'em in port, don't turn them into razor blades! America may need her ladies once more!'
You speak to the crew of the Enterprise when they were alive, and they would quite clearly tell you that her scrapping was exactly what they wanted for her. They didn't want 'snot nosed brats' running around putting hands on the lady in and out and wrecking her remains, her strung up somewhere like a stuffed animal to be ogled at. So, it can be argued that the soul of a ship are her fighting men, and if so, it's what she wanted.
The Iowas' crews however? 'Put 'em in port, don't turn them into razor blades! America may need her ladies once more!'
Anything that looks like a crotch cannon can't be that overrated.
You should see the NEO ARMSTRONG CYCLONE JET ARMSTRONG CANNON then.
I love how the AA Queen and Boss are dumbstruck in the background of panel 5. Just makes the fact that Iowa is gonna be freakin' powerful even more delicious.
You speak to the crew of the Enterprise when they were alive, and they would quite clearly tell you that her scrapping was exactly what they wanted for her. They didn't want 'snot nosed brats' running around putting hands on the lady in and out and wrecking her remains, her strung up somewhere like a stuffed animal to be ogled at. So, it can be argued that the soul of a ship are her fighting men, and if so, it's what she wanted.
Actually, there have been multiple attempts to preserve the Enterprise but not enough money could be raised to do so.
Actually, there have been multiple attempts to preserve the Enterprise but not enough money could be raised to do so.
I, and most people invested in WW2 naval history, are aware of this. However, those attempts came to naught, and were headed up mostly by people such as Adm. Halsey, Adm. Mitcher, Adm. Spruance, Adm. McCain, and so forth.
Theirs were not reflective of the general opinion of the Enterprise's crew. Oh, assuredly, there were many of her sailors that wanted to see her saved, but many of them would later admit that they thought it better as it turned out.
You speak to the crew of the Enterprise when they were alive, and they would quite clearly tell you that her scrapping was exactly what they wanted for her. They didn't want 'snot nosed brats' running around putting hands on the lady in and out and wrecking her remains, her strung up somewhere like a stuffed animal to be ogled at. So, it can be argued that the soul of a ship are her fighting men, and if so, it's what she wanted.
The Iowas' crews however? 'Put 'em in port, don't turn them into razor blades! America may need her ladies once more!'
Enterprise's crew sounds like "I will rule this sector or see it burn to ashes around me" nutjobs they way you put it. In other words if they can't control the ship they want it to be destroyed and fade from history instead of having kids learn from it.
kibehisa said: You speak to the crew of the Enterprise when they were alive, and they would quite clearly tell you that her scrapping was exactly what they wanted for her. They didn't want 'snot nosed brats' running around putting hands on the lady in and out and wrecking her remains, her strung up somewhere like a stuffed animal to be ogled at. So, it can be argued that the soul of a ship are her fighting men, and if so, it's what she wanted.
I would imagine that she would have preferred to not be turned into scrap metal and then melted down.
Other than that, I think it begs the question regarding who has the rights to preseve history: the artist, or in this the crew, or the public?
I just think that it is a big shame on America that we did not preserve the enterprise considering her war record and influence she had not only on american history, but on the entire strategic view of carriers. (that honor she shares with her sisters)
Considering that the Smithsonian was able to acquire a great deal of prototype models for dirt cheap, that were destined for the scrapyards, and that the collection there has actually continued to further the cause of aviation (and, oddly enough, space exploration. Discoloration on the gloves of one of the astronauts suits led the resulting examination to reveal Lunar Dust has unique properties when exposed to many common fibers from Earth, due to its sharp angles), it is a shame that the Enterprise wasn't granted this honor.
I mean, if it were up to Kafka, his works would be destroyed as well, and I think there has been more benefit than harm in not heeding that wish, which isn't a decision to be taken lightly.
I would imagine that she would have preferred to not be turned into scrap metal and then melted down.
You both have to realize that the other museum ship at the time, the USS Olympia, was at that point already rusting without any of the promised support. The crews predicted that the Enterprise would not have been taken care of even remotely properly, and - looking at the other Museum Ships from WW2 - they were right.
The Texas is sinking where she sits, the Yorktown's keel is breaking, the Intrepid has been turned into an abomination Frankenstein ship, the Hornet is in a very bad way, the Lexington - what's left of her at least - had asphalt poured on her deck. Asphalt! The North Carolina is... ...actually, I'm not even going to get started on the state of the BB museums. And all of these have been museums a lot less time than the Enterprise would have been.
While, don't get me wrong, I wish that the Gray Ghost had been preserved. But her crew was right.
Keep in mind, a floating museum is also insanely expensive. For the example of the Texas, she needs daily bilging still and she is well outside the intended duration of being out at sea.
That's very, very sad. Here I thought turning into a floating museum is like retiring to a seaside mansion, I never know that 'seaside mansion' is actually the name of some shithole apartment in the ghetto.
That's very, very sad. Here I thought turning into a floating museum is like retiring to a seaside mansion, I never know that 'seaside mansion' is actually the name of some shithole apartment in the ghetto.
I'd like to imagine that at least some of the many, many museum ships in the world are actually treated with respect and lots of care, though I don't know for certain.
You both have to realize that the other museum ship at the time, the USS Olympia, was at that point already rusting without any of the promised support. The crews predicted that the Enterprise would not have been taken care of even remotely properly, and - looking at the other Museum Ships from WW2 - they were right.
The Texas is sinking where she sits, the Yorktown's keel is breaking, the Intrepid has been turned into an abomination Frankenstein ship, the Hornet is in a very bad way, the Lexington - what's left of her at least - had asphalt poured on her deck. Asphalt! The North Carolina is... ...actually, I'm not even going to get started on the state of the BB museums. And all of these have been museums a lot less time than the Enterprise would have been.
While, don't get me wrong, I wish that the Gray Ghost had been preserved. But her crew was right.
Ahem, the USS Massachusetts and her neighbors are doing quite well thank you.
Ahem, the USS Massachusetts and her neighbors are doing quite well thank you.
This is true, for the most part, I admit... I mean, beyond the fact that she was cannibalized for parts for the Iowas (meaning most of her machinery parts are actually missing/replaced with facsimiles), and complications from her repairs in the late 90s.
Big Mamie and her Mammies are doing 'just fine', for a ship in her position.
Someone involved with the USS Massachusetts team said (emphasis added) :
Her hull is in good shape and parts of her interior are good to fairly good, but the deck is pretty tough. Lot of rot, damage-areas filled in with concrete. She's had years of people climbing over her and touching everything and it shows. Turret 3 is the only turret you can go in and the left rifle is depressed to loading position with that area fixed up and looking pretty good, but every dial or lens inside the turret is cracked or broken, stuff is painted over.
This is considered 'good' for a museum ship. The reason why they don't let people in Turrets 1 and 2? A good deal of it all is missing.
You both have to realize that the other museum ship at the time, the USS Olympia, was at that point already rusting without any of the promised support. The crews predicted that the Enterprise would not have been taken care of even remotely properly, and - looking at the other Museum Ships from WW2 - they were right.
The Texas is sinking where she sits, the Yorktown's keel is breaking, the Intrepid has been turned into an abomination Frankenstein ship, the Hornet is in a very bad way, the Lexington - what's left of her at least - had asphalt poured on her deck. Asphalt! The North Carolina is... ...actually, I'm not even going to get started on the state of the BB museums. And all of these have been museums a lot less time than the Enterprise would have been.
While, don't get me wrong, I wish that the Gray Ghost had been preserved. But her crew was right.
Take a lot of relatively slim steel rods of uniform size... lay them along in front of a ship... get enough tow trucks on hand and a small ramp in front of the first rod... and roll a ship off of a drydock onto dry land (admittedly, it would need the drydock to be able to MOVE so as to not cordon off chunks of harbor), then roll it along until you get to where you want it to sit. Then roll it off onto some sand you laid down.
Then build a big shed over it (maybe even made of reinforced glass in places to let the light in) if you really feel like reducing wood rot by keeping the rain out.
Most ships are stable on their bottoms on dry land due to sheer realities of design (e.g. flat bottoms).
the Hornet is in a very bad way, the Lexington - what's left of her at least - had asphalt poured on her deck. Asphalt!
Not mentioned: Hornet and Lexington holds the title as the most haunted warship ever.
Lexington have this ghost of a sailor that died in 1943 when a torpedo nailed the boiler room. Some visitors claimed they encountered a young man dressed in Navy uniform of that era and often acted as a tour guide,showing parts of the ship while explaining it's functions for.When they asked the management,they surprised to find out that the museum never employed a tour guide.
Hornet on the other hand,well,try spend a night on-board. See if you can make it without seeing apparitions or hearing the sound of a door being slammed shut.
If both of these make it into the game,I suspect they were depicted as someone who loves giving out creepy ghost stories or have to keep a Bible and a cross close because they keep hearing voices in their head.
You speak to the crew of the Enterprise when they were alive, and they would quite clearly tell you that her scrapping was exactly what they wanted for her. They didn't want 'snot nosed brats' running around putting hands on the lady in and out and wrecking her remains, her strung up somewhere like a stuffed animal to be ogled at. So, it can be argued that the soul of a ship are her fighting men, and if so, it's what she wanted.
The Iowas' crews however? 'Put 'em in port, don't turn them into razor blades! America may need her ladies once more!'
I'm pretty sure there's a case of "sour grapes" there.
This is true, for the most part, I admit... I mean, beyond the fact that she was cannibalized for parts for the Iowas (meaning most of her machinery parts are actually missing/replaced with facsimiles), and complications from her repairs in the late 90s.
Massachusetts also has the only engine room you can go in for a battleship (I think). In a fully fitted ship there's just not enough room to make it safe for tourists to go in the engine room and not kill themselves trying to climb down the ladders.
When I went there the stuff in the No3 turret was in decent shape. The rangefinder was missing parts, and the original glass was replaced with clear plastic. There's a couple 5"/38 turrets you can go in and those are very well preserved.
The most rusted parts are the bofors mounts and the upper weather deck, everything else is in good shape.
Then of course all 4 Iowas are in fantastic shape because they've just come off the reserve fleet. Midway is even better because she spent almost no time laid up in Mothball.
Not mentioned: Hornet and Lexington holds the title as the most haunted warship ever.
Lexington have this ghost of a sailor that died in 1943 when a torpedo nailed the boiler room. Some visitors claimed they encountered a young man dressed in Navy uniform of that era and often acted as a tour guide,showing parts of the ship while explaining it's functions for.When they asked the management,they surprised to find out that the museum never employed a tour guide.
Hornet on the other hand,well,try spend a night on-board. See if you can make it without seeing apparitions or hearing the sound of a door being slammed shut.
If both of these make it into the game,I suspect they were depicted as someone who loves giving out creepy ghost stories or have to keep a Bible and a cross close because they keep hearing voices in their head.
I remember that. Would make interesting things to tell KDKW and Tanaka.
I remember that. Would make interesting things to tell KDKW and Tanaka.
Well,majority of surviving USN ships that made it past WW2 is reportedly haunted.USS Salem,USS The Sullivans,USS Kidd,USS Laffey,are among them.Iowa-class are lucky not to have this because they were rarely exposed to danger(well,Missouri do got hit with a kamikaze,but casualty is minimal) unlike Lexington,which took a kamikaze directly at the bridge and killed much of those in it.
Not mentioned: Hornet and Lexington holds the title as the most haunted warship ever.
Specifically, that title goes to Hornet. The Lexington's haunters are largely benign, the Hornet's on the other hand... ...well, they call her the 'Black Ghost' for a number of reasons.
Scored, the 2nd highest number of enemy planes shot down from the sky (and on the ground), the highest number of enemy pilots killed, 10 Japanese Destroyers, 1 Light Cruiser, 1 Aircraft Carrier (Hiyou), and the critical first strikes on the Yamato.
Meanwhile, the only damage that ever came to her was from 'friendly' fire, a landing accident, and when Halsey's typhoon ripped off her forward flight deck (and the crew would, within 20 minutes of pulling themselves together afterwards, send an aircraft off the aft of the ship just to prove they could still get in the fight). Bombs and Bullets would just 'curve' their way around her, so claimed the Japanese.
She's haunted by the Japanese sailors and airmen that she sent to the depths.
Adolf95 said:
If both of these make it into the game,I suspect they were depicted as someone who loves giving out creepy ghost stories or have to keep a Bible and a cross close because they keep hearing voices in their head.
That is actually how I would portray Hornet (and have), but Lexington would probably end up being more of the commander type from being the Flagship so often (traded frequently with Hornet [CV-12] and Enterprise).
Adolf95 said:
Iowa-class are lucky not to have this because they were rarely exposed to danger
Actually, all 4 of the Iowas are said to be haunted... ...by the benevolent spirits of the ships themselves (and, according to some, once in a while the spirits of those old sailors now gone on to the great beyond). Although, the New Jersey supposedly gets riled up every time that she perceives the US as being in a war and can get violent. This is where most of the stories of their ship spirits come from - Iowa's prissiness, New Jersey being they type of 'guy' (gal) that you want to go down to the bar and down a few rounds with, Mo's ladylike but solemn behavior, and Wisky just being one of the guys.
There is also the legend of an amorphous blob ghost-like entity (with an unidentifiable female in the middle of it) that will randomly appear on one of them and can cause damage. The legend claims that it was this spirit that caused the electrical fire on the Wisconsin back before she was recommissioned the last time. (The legend says that this blob is the spirit of the never-built Montana, vengeful that she never got a body. Well, maybe the spirit will be satisfied now that there will be a Virginia-class USS Montana.)
Adolf95 said:
USS Laffey
Unfortunately (Fortunately?), it seems that the haunting at the Laffey has stopped ever since she tried to sink herself the last time. Before that though, the legends say that every April 15th, for 80 minutes, she repeated her fight.
Specifically, that title goes to Hornet. The Lexington's haunters are largely benign, the Hornet's on the other hand... ...well, they call her the 'Black Ghost' for a number of reasons.
Scored, the 2nd highest number of enemy planes shot down from the sky (and on the ground), the highest number of enemy pilots killed, 10 Japanese Destroyers, 1 Light Cruiser, 1 Aircraft Carrier (Hiyou), and the critical first strikes on the Yamato.
Meanwhile, the only damage that ever came to her was from 'friendly' fire, a landing accident, and when Halsey's typhoon ripped off her forward flight deck (and the crew would, within 20 minutes of pulling themselves together afterwards, send an aircraft off the aft of the ship just to prove they could still get in the fight). Bombs and Bullets would just 'curve' their way around her, so claimed the Japanese.
She's haunted by the Japanese sailors and airmen that she sent to the depths.
That is actually how I would portray Hornet (and have), but Lexington would probably end up being more of the commander type from being the Flagship so often (traded frequently with Hornet [CV-12] and Enterprise).
Actually, all 4 of the Iowas are said to be haunted... ...by the benevolent spirits of the ships themselves (and, according to some, once in a while the spirits of those old sailors now gone on to the great beyond). Although, the New Jersey supposedly gets riled up every time that she perceives the US as being in a war and can get violent. This is where most of the stories of their ship spirits come from - Iowa's prissiness, New Jersey being they type of 'guy' (gal) that you want to go down to the bar and down a few rounds with, Mo's ladylike but solemn behavior, and Wisky just being one of the guys.
There is also the legend of an amorphous blob ghost-like entity (with an unidentifiable female in the middle of it) that will randomly appear on one of them and can cause damage. The legend claims that it was this spirit that caused the electrical fire on the Wisconsin back before she was recommissioned the last time. (The legend says that this blob is the spirit of the never-built Montana, vengeful that she never got a body. Well, maybe the spirit will be satisfied now that there will be a Virginia-class USS Montana.)
Unfortunately (Fortunately?), it seems that the haunting at the Laffey has stopped ever since she tried to sink herself the last time. Before that though, the legends say that every April 15th, for 80 minutes, she repeated her fight.
Specifically, that title goes to Hornet. The Lexington's haunters are largely benign, the Hornet's on the other hand... ...well, they call her the 'Black Ghost' for a number of reasons.
Yeah,Lexington's haunting are quite mild,with only apparitions and mysterious fog around the engine room. Ghost Labs made an investigation there and only managed to get some EVPs(Funnily enough,one of the crews once served on Lexington and had experienced her haunting while she still in action).
USS Hornet on the other hand,her haunting is so hardcore it actually hurts people.Ghost Adventures investigated her in Season 4 and guess what,multiple occurrences including physical interactions are all captured on camera. In fact most viewers consider this as one of GA's most intense episodes. Don't believe me? Now youshould.
Yeah,Lexington's haunting are quite mild,with only apparitions and mysterious fog around the engine room. Ghost Labs made an investigation there and only managed to get some EVPs(Funnily enough,one of the crews once served on Lexington and had experienced her haunting while she still in action).
USS Hornet on the other hand,her haunting is so hardcore it actually hurts people.Ghost Adventures investigated her in Season 4 and guess what,multiple occurrences including physical interactions are all captured on camera. In fact most viewers consider this as one of GA's most intense episodes. Don't believe me? Now youshould.
Ghost Adventures. Been a while since I've watched them. Lexington's residual while Hornet's may be something quite malevolent.
Not mentioned: Hornet and Lexington holds the title as the most haunted warship ever.
Lexington have this ghost of a sailor that died in 1943 when a torpedo nailed the boiler room. Some visitors claimed they encountered a young man dressed in Navy uniform of that era and often acted as a tour guide,showing parts of the ship while explaining it's functions for.When they asked the management,they surprised to find out that the museum never employed a tour guide.
Hornet on the other hand,well,try spend a night on-board. See if you can make it without seeing apparitions or hearing the sound of a door being slammed shut.
If both of these make it into the game,I suspect they were depicted as someone who loves giving out creepy ghost stories or have to keep a Bible and a cross close because they keep hearing voices in their head.
Eh, don't feel too bad, Yamato. At least you went down fighting, instead of, say, suffering a warp core breach caused by an Iconian computer virus, and exploding with no warning causing the death of all hands.
Speaking of museum ships, I wonder what is the condition of the Belfast. I visited it once but I wasn't aware of the harsh realities of museum ships at the time so yeah.
I was sunk in vain!Okinawa
Yamato was bombarded and sunk by 386 planesSomething like this Phalanx... Can shoot down countless airplanes?
Why wasn't I given that earlier?You again!
Illegal, confisticated!Abyssal bombers eliminated!Phalanx CIWS!Where's the democracy? Where's the human rights? Where's the freedom?You need to use WW2 (1944) equipment!Harpoon missiles? Confiscated!You're welcome, hahaThanksGood thing she isn't an enemy...Are you new?Don't be sad, leave it to me!Is there really no way to avoid fate?406mm Nuclear shells? Confiscated!
The Mark 23 Nuclear Artillery Shells designed for the naval 16" battleship guns. Had a yield of 15-20 kilotons. 50 units were produced.
For comparison the "Little Boy" and "Fat Man" atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki had approximate yields of 15 and 21 kilotons respectively.
