Whoa whoa wait up. Remi's power can determine the fate of the universe?! Holy shit, talk about OP as fuck.

Damn... And other Touhou characters are supposed to be stronger than her?
Buttmonkey status and all

undinehunt24 said:

Damn... And other Touhou characters are supposed to be stronger than her?
Buttmonkey status and all

Well the power to control fate is still powerful. There is a good reason why she never use it.

T34/38 said:

Well the power to control fate is still powerful. There is a good reason why she never use it.

She uses it. It's just that "fate" is much more subtle than nuclear fusion or teleporting a nuke into someone's lap. It's like using time travel to prevent someone from ever being born - in the new timeline, who would notice the nonexistence of someone they never knew in the first place?

It's all just a matter of how vast a concept she can actually change, and how much control she has over it. "Controlling the fate of the entire universe" might actually be trickier than fating someone to trip on a banana peel, since, strictly speaking, you only need to change one factor in the fundamental physics underlying the universe, whereas altering reality on a level where someone does not notice and steps on a banana peel may take altering a tremendous number of factors of where a person subconsciously chooses to walk and place their attention.

It could also be said that she just is willing to accept being the butt monkey sometimes. It's hardly like she has an uncomfortable life, and she's directly allied with the most powerful beings in her world. In spite of fanon portrayals, Remi isn't entirely stupid and childish, and could well be putting on the act of the fool (not unlike Yuyuko) because she prefers it when Reimu takes the spotlight and resolves difficult issues for her to having to do everything herself. (Silent Sinner in Blue, for example, was a plot where she knowingly was used as the bait for the Lunarians, and didn't mind losing when the battle actually came.) It may just be too difficult for her to find a possible fate out of every possible divergent possibility where she never, ever, has a slip-up that winds up with her eating crow, so she just finds the fate that winds up with her coming out reasonably on top most of the time. (Even losing to Reimu in EoSD can be seen as net beneficial to Remi, since she ultimately gained allies and influence through them, plus had someone else help pacify her unruly little sister for her.)

NWSiaCB said:

She uses it. It's just that "fate" is much more subtle than nuclear fusion or teleporting a nuke into someone's lap. It's like using time travel to prevent someone from ever being born - in the new timeline, who would notice the nonexistence of someone they never knew in the first place?

It's all just a matter of how vast a concept she can actually change, and how much control she has over it. "Controlling the fate of the entire universe" might actually be trickier than fating someone to trip on a banana peel, since, strictly speaking, you only need to change one factor in the fundamental physics underlying the universe, whereas altering reality on a level where someone does not notice and steps on a banana peel may take altering a tremendous number of factors of where a person subconsciously chooses to walk and place their attention.

It could also be said that she just is willing to accept being the butt monkey sometimes. It's hardly like she has an uncomfortable life, and she's directly allied with the most powerful beings in her world. In spite of fanon portrayals, Remi isn't entirely stupid and childish, and could well be putting on the act of the fool (not unlike Yuyuko) because she prefers it when Reimu takes the spotlight and resolves difficult issues for her to having to do everything herself. (Silent Sinner in Blue, for example, was a plot where she knowingly was used as the bait for the Lunarians, and didn't mind losing when the battle actually came.) It may just be too difficult for her to find a possible fate out of every possible divergent possibility where she never, ever, has a slip-up that winds up with her eating crow, so she just finds the fate that winds up with her coming out reasonably on top most of the time. (Even losing to Reimu in EoSD can be seen as net beneficial to Remi, since she ultimately gained allies and influence through them, plus had someone else help pacify her unruly little sister for her.)

This is part of my headcanon now.

On a related note... The fact that Eirin says "It's understandable that she only used it in the moments before her death" makes me think that at least some applications of Remi's fate-manipulation carry an inherent danger to her own well-being, and that this one particular application could've resulted in her own demise in the process... which is rendered moot by the fact that she's already dying, thus giving her free rein to use it.

MarqFJA87 said:

...Remi's fate-manipulation carry an inherent danger to her own well-being, and that this one particular application could've resulted in her own demise in the process...

This is actually quite possible.

Let's imagine a person A was fated to die one day, but Remi saved him by changing his fate. What are the chances that the person will not kill Remi someday? Maybe he wanted to kill Remi in the first place, but failed to do so because he was fated to die that day? What i meant is, changing one fate could affect in changing another... but it maybe just my mind speaking nonsense.

Which now gives me a question: Does fate manipulation means Remi could read fate too? I somehow imagined her to be able to know a person's fate before she could alter it.

Anti_Dandruff said:
Let's imagine a person A was fated to die one day, but Remi saved him by changing his fate. What are the chances that the person will not kill Remi someday? Maybe he wanted to kill Remi in the first place, but failed to do so because he was fated to die that day? What i meant is, changing one fate could affect in changing another... but it maybe just my mind speaking nonsense.

There is a limit to Remi's fate changing ability though. If person A was pre-determined to die on that one day, Fate could never change it even with her powers. Remilia cannot change anything "Set in stone" whatever thay may be. According to Zun, Remi can only change "Alterable" events.

Remi tried to change the fate of her fight with Reimu for example and according to her, no matter how many scenarios there were, she would always lose in the end.

Remi is only a "Fate Manipulator" but I guess there is something above her like a "Fate creator" or something. Kinda like how the Yamas and Shinigamis determine if someone is ment to die or not. Though in that case, Tenshi has shown us that you can literally give Death the middle finger by just constantly fighting off every Shinigami that tries to reap your soul. Tenshi is "Supposed" to be dead by now.