Untangling the mess of Fate character umbrella tags, Jalter Edition

Posted under Tags

As previously mentioned in forum #347077. With the exception of Artoria Pendragon and Tamamo, a whole bunch of these servant implication hierarchies are vaguely nonsense. Specifically the ones I plan to eventually dissect are Nero Claudius, BB, Mordred, Jeanne d'Arc, Jeanne d'Arc Alter, and Elizabeth Bathory.
These top-level tags and their sub-tags are serving two conflicting approaches—a hierarchy based on "servant class" and a hierarchy based on "costumes". For the example with Artoria, they are easily distinguished from each other and identifiable as separate characters; Saber is not Salter is not Castoria is not MHX is not Titoria. However, with many other characters the differences are literally just costume. Which brings me to my first and relatively easiest tag to tackle: Jeanne d'Arc Alter.

Now as white woman of the year Jalter should definitely not share an umbrella tag with Jeanne since she significantly outnumbers her in post count. That aside, there are only 4 main variants of Jalter at most—Avenger, Swimsuit, alter santa lily (which I also have no problem with keeping in a separate tag), and lancer (who is currently implicated to Jeanne instead which I have gripes with, forum #319316).

Unlike Artoria, there isn't really a meaningful difference outside of costumes for 3 of these designs (Avenger, Swimsuit, Lancer). So it's extremely silly that our current tag hierarchy is:

  • Jalter
    • Jalter Avenger
      • Ascension 1
      • Ascension 3
      • Holy Night Supper
      • New Beginning
      • Shinjuku
    • Bikini Jalter
      • Mystery Treasure
      • Festival Outfit

Her swimsuit version doesn't even have separate ascensions cuz she's a welfare! We don't really have any good reason to maintain 3 levels of implications here, the distinction between "bikini jalter" and "not-bikini jalter" is pedantic at best. believe me i love being a pedant but even i know when to quit

There's no reason the Jalter implication tree shouldn't look like this instead:

  • Jalter
    • Ascension 1
    • Ascension 3
    • Holy Night Supper
    • New Beginning
    • Shinjuku
    • Bikini Jalter
      • Mystery Treasure
      • Festival Outfit

(The two under bikini jalter have enough connection to warrant that level staying but i can see it going the other way.)

Similar problems exist with most of the other tags I listed above, since they generally primarily consist of "normal char" and "swimsuit" with a few exceptions which is flimsy. But for now I'm starting with Jalter because this one is the easiest, thanks to her not having swimsuit ascensions. Plan to submit a BUR later when I'm not on phone and about to conk out unless someone beats me to it.

Updated by Ylimegirl

BUR #39974 has been rejected.

remove implication jeanne_d'arc_alter_(festival_outfit)_(fate) -> jeanne_d'arc_alter_(swimsuit_berserker)_(fate)
create implication jeanne_d'arc_alter_(festival_outfit)_(fate) -> jeanne_d'arc_alter_(fate)
remove implication jeanne_d'arc_alter_(mystery_treasure)_(fate) -> jeanne_d'arc_alter_(swimsuit_berserker)_(fate)
create implication jeanne_d'arc_alter_(mystery_treasure)_(fate) -> jeanne_d'arc_alter_(fate)

Bikini jalter costumes. I'm fine with leaving these implied to bikini jalter as I stated previously, but I also understand if others want them implied to the main tag instead.

Current:

  • Jalter
    • Swimsuit Berserker
      • Festival Outfit
      • Mystery Treasure

Proposed:

  • Jalter
    • Swimsuit Berserker
    • Festival Outfit
    • Mystery Treasure

BUR #41647 has been approved by @nonamethanks.

create implication jeanne_d'arc_alter_(violette_vengeur)_(fate) -> jeanne_d'arc_alter_(fate)

what do you mean this costume was released in fgo arcade and gave us an official name for this dress years ago. upset

eta: i cant quite read / fgo wiki lied to me in that the ヴァンジェール part of ヴィヨレットヴァンジェール isn't quite read as "angel". it's got a "v" sound at the beginning there (full romanization: viyoretto vanjeeru). not entirely sure what the fuck its supposed to be then. if anyone else comes up with a better translation please suggest it as an alias.

Updated by Ylimegirl

Ylimegirl said:

BUR #41647 has been approved by @nonamethanks.

create implication jeanne_d'arc_alter_(violette_vengeur)_(fate) -> jeanne_d'arc_alter_(fate)

what do you mean this costume was released in fgo arcade and gave us an official name for this dress years ago. upset

eta: i cant quite read / fgo wiki lied to me in that the ヴァンジェール part of ヴィヨレットヴァンジェール isn't quite read as "angel". it's got a "v" sound at the beginning there (full romanization: viyoretto vanjeeru). not entirely sure what the fuck its supposed to be then. if anyone else comes up with a better translation please suggest it as an alias.

ヴァンジェール seems likely to me to be the french word vengeur, which is french for Avenger (but like, masculine form). It's probably supposed to be "Violette Vengeur" or some shit ("Violet Avenger" but with botched french grammar just like "La Grondement Du Haine") because the ヴィヨレット part should probably also be different if it was the english pronunciation of Violet.

Updated by Astolfo

Astolfo said:

It's probably supposed to be "Violette Vengeur" or some shit ("Violet Avenger" but with botched french grammar just like "La Grondement Du Haine") because the ヴィヨレット part should probably also be different if it was the english pronunciation of Violet.

FGO wiki has it listed as Violette Vengeur.

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