Fix paw and claw tags to align with how other hand gesture tags are used

Posted under Tags

BUR #54525 has been rejected.

mass update paw_pose -> double_paw_pose
mass update claw_pose -> double_claw_pose
mass update one_paw_pose -> paw_pose
mass update one_claw_pose -> claw_pose
create implication double_paw_pose -> paw_pose
create implication double_claw_pose -> claw_pose
deprecate one_paw_pose
deprecate one_claw_pose

All gesture tags use the same tagging scheme, except for 2: paw and claw gestures.

All other gesture tags follow the same format:
1 hand (or more) used: (v, w, middle finger, \m/, \n/, finger gun, l hand, etc.)
Both hands used: (double v, double w, double middle finger, double \m/, double \n/, double finger gun, double l)

Except with paw and claw:
1 hand (only) used: (one paw pose, one claw pose)
Both hands used: (paw pose, claw pose)

To fix this, we can either:
A: explicitly define paw pose and claw pose as gestures involving both hands, then scrub images to remove FN's
B: update paw pose and claw pose to double paw pose and double claw pose, then scrub images to remove FP's

With approach A, all paw pose and claw pose images will need to be scrubbed for False-Negatives of one paw pose and one claw pose tags. This is the current approach, which results in an inconsistent tagging scheme.

With approach B, these tags will then align with the rest of site, and finding specific images with these tags becomes much easier.

As it is now, there are thousands of paw pose and claw pose images with only one hand up that can't be found.
If the bulk update request is accepted, I'll scrub through the images and remove all false-positives for the new tags.
If it's rejected, I'll work on correcting all false-negatives for the current one_ tags, as these are my favorite poses.

Updated by しすた-しにかる

Unbreakable said in forum #417321:

If anything I'd prefer leaving the current tag for double and create a new one for single.

There aren't any double tags for paw/claw poses, but all other gestures use 'double'
For example, v, w, middle finger, middle w, \m/, \n/, l hand, finger gun, and so on all use 'double':
double v, double w, double middle finger, double middle w, double \m/, double \n/, double l, double finger gun

The 'single' and 'one' prefixes are used for body parts and some other things, but not for gestures.
In the Gestures tag group, it mentions "Gestures encompassing at least two hands"

Updated by しすた-しにかる

BUR #54529 has been rejected.

mass update one_paw_pose -> paw_pose -one_paw_pose
deprecate one_paw_pose
mass update one_claw_pose -> claw_pose -one_claw_pose
deprecate one_claw_pose

Downvoting the OP since the current BUR would lead to thousands of false positives as already stated above.

The low post count on these tags states to me that it is a meaningless distinction that people aren't actually searching for so I think they should just be merged.

CyclicallyCynical said in forum #417315:

BUR #54525 has been rejected.

mass update paw_pose -> double_paw_pose
mass update claw_pose -> double_claw_pose
mass update one_paw_pose -> paw_pose
mass update one_claw_pose -> claw_pose
create implication double_paw_pose -> paw_pose
create implication double_claw_pose -> claw_pose
deprecate one_paw_pose
deprecate one_claw_pose

As I was tagging paw and claw images, I noticed an inconsistency between how they and the other hand gesture tags are used across the site.

...

There's a good reason this inconsistency exists. Gestures like v and middle finger are typically done with one hand, so there's a tag for when both hands are doing it. Paw pose and claw pose are both commonly done with both hands, so if anything, the one-handed gesture is the exception that should be tagged in these particular cases.

This just feels like chasing consistency "just because". Consistency isn't everything. Tagging the exception is more important.

zetsubousensei said in forum #417327:

The low post count on these tags states to me that it is a meaningless distinction that people aren't actually searching for so I think they should just be merged.

Well, the tags were just created today, so I say let 'em cook. Maybe a favgroup would've been better, but alas.

zetsubousensei said in forum #417327:

BUR #54529 has been rejected.

mass update one_paw_pose -> paw_pose -one_paw_pose
deprecate one_paw_pose
mass update one_claw_pose -> claw_pose -one_claw_pose
deprecate one_claw_pose

Downvoting the OP since the current BUR would lead to thousands of false positives as already stated above.

The low post count on these tags states to me that it is a meaningless distinction that people aren't actually searching for so I think they should just be merged.

I stated in my original post that I'd be scrubbing all the affected tags for false-negatives.
In fact, I said I'm scrubbing through all images either way.

Whether the suggestions I sent are accepted or not, it results in the same amount of work for me.
Either way, I'll be reviewing all images and either removing ~5k false-positives after updating both tags with their double counterparts, or I'll be finding the ~5k false-negatives that currently exist and add either one_paw_pose or one_claw_pose to them so these tags are searchable and consistent with the rest of the site.

Updated by しすた-しにかる

Unbreakable said in forum #417330:

Also if we do keep the single tag, it should be named single_paw/claw_pose, not one_paw/claw_pose, that could be seen as meaning something else entirely.

I like the sound of single_paw and single_claw, but no other gestures use single_x or one_x
Hence why I think the current one_paw_pose tag (with only 150 images) should be removed 😅

hasu_no_tokimeki said in forum #417329:

There's a good reason this inconsistency exists. Gestures like v and middle finger are typically done with one hand, so there's a tag for when both hands are doing it. Paw pose and claw pose are both commonly done with both hands, so if anything, the one-handed gesture is the exception that should be tagged in these particular cases.

Out of the dozen or so hand gestures that we have tags for, all of them have double_ variants, and none of them have single_ or one_ variants.
So, this thought process doesn't make sense to me considering the already established precedent. In the Gestures tag group, it even states "Gestures encompassing at least two hands", which supports what I suggested.

This just feels like chasing consistency "just because". Consistency isn't everything. Tagging the exception is more important.
Well, the tags were just created today, so I say let 'em cook. Maybe a favgroup would've been better, but alas.

It's not as much for consistency as it is for, just as you say, tagging the exceptions. But, there are over a dozen hand gestures, and 100% of them follow a consistent tagging structure. At the bottom of my post, I say that I'm going to be tagging all paw and claw poses (yes, all ~80k of them) so the differentiation is made on all of them. If it's not done now, it'll have to be done at some point (unless we're OK with not fixing the inconsistency long-term).

Something should 100% be done either way. In my post I suggested 2 approaches, A and B.
In my A approach, I suggest keeping the tags the same and simply going through all images to add the current underpopulated tag.

Updated by しすた-しにかる

BUR #54581 has been approved by @evazion.

create alias one_paw_pose -> single_paw_pose
create alias one_claw_pose -> single_claw_pose

If these tags don't get nuked, they should still be renamed to parallel the language of other tags like double v, single earring, etc.

Updated by hasu no hassennen

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