Feature Suggestion: Streamlining umbrella tags with Abstract Tags

Posted under Bugs & Features

Note: This is not a new suggestion. See forum #268394 and issue #6088. But this idea still has potential so I'm throwing it back into the spotlight.

Context

People are currently trying to deal with the Arknights copytag situation in topic #35072.
For those unaware: Arknights is a 5+ year old game in an established universe with +200k posts. Arknights: Endfield is a recently launched game that takes place in the same universe but with a 100-500 year timeskip. Arknights: Endfield implies Arknights which has converted this tag into an catch-all for both games. People searching specifically for Arknights content will need to filter their results, but a new umbrella tag like arknights_(series) will undoubtedly end up as a dumping ground. A new type of tag could help here: Abstract Tags.
The name is derived from an Abstract Class a concept in Objected-oriented programming. In a nutshell, an abstract class is used as a blueprint for other classes but cannot be used by itself.

How would it work?

Abstract tags would function very similarly to deprecated tags; They cannot be added by adding them though the edit field.
They would however still be able to be added through an implication. In a visual way:

fruit (abstract)
|       
+-- apple 
|       
+-- banana

I wouldn't be able to tag a post with fruit but if I tag banana, it would automatically add fruit.

Going back to the Arknights situation:
Arknights could then be cleaned up to apply to the original game exclusively and Arknights: Endfield would be pretty much unchanged. Both these tags would then imply a new umbrella tag.
Note that because this umbrella is managed exclusively through implications, the naming and findability for tagging specifically doesn't really matter. We could name it arknights_cinematic_universe, amiyaverse whatever distinctive name we need.

In short, abstract tags would force users to be a bit more specific.

What about other copyrights?

The functionality of Abstract Tags would also add a way to deal with people only slapping the *_(series) tag on a post and calling it a day.
naruto_(series) copytags:1 / lyrical_nanoha copytags:1 / monogatari_(series) copytags:1 / splatoon_(series) copytags:1 / fate_(series) copytags:1

For example:

The uploader of this post just tagged it with Monogatari (Series) and pressed post.
Ononoki Yotsugi was introduced in Nisemonogatari so at the very least that tag should have been included.
Ideally all copyrights where the character appeared should be included as tags.

Usage with general tags

There are also a number of general tags with implications where the umbrella tag ideally should always be accompanied by atleast 1 child tag.
Here a non-exhaustive list (that is up for discussion) where Abstract Tags could help out:

frills
frills -frilled_*
Main discussion in topic #25849. Frills are attached to something, for which we have proper tags.

multiple girls
multiple_girls -2girls -3girls -4girls -5girls -6+girls
Multiple girls means two or more, so one of these tags should be included.

multiple boys
multiple_boys -2boys -3boys -4boys -5boys -6+boys
Same reason as above.

breasts
breasts -small_breasts -medium_breasts -large_breasts -huge_breasts -gigantic_breasts
Besides the various action tags that imply breasts, their size should be quantified.

pov
pov -pov_* -*_pov
POV requires a part of the viewer be visible, we have several tags for that.

facial hair
facial_hair -beard -*beard* -mustache -*mustache* -mutton_chops -sideburns -*sideburns* -stubble -*stubble* -soul_patch -goatee -*goatee* Not a perfect search, but I'm hitting the limit here
I think tagging just facial hair isn't really that helpful when we have so many facial hair related tags.

mole
mole -mole_*
A mole is always located somewhere on a body. We have fitting tags for pretty much all of them.

genderswap
genderswap -genderswap_(*
A genderswap should always include a direction. MTF / FTM / OTF / OTM / FTO / MTO

And a bonus meta tag: traditional media
traditional_media -*_(medium)
If it's known that a post is traditional media, then the uploader should also specify which form specifically.

Thoughts?

I disagree with including tags related to the series. It's not always possible to neatly assign a post to a specific game or movie.

Example: post #11411857

This character is from a three-game series, but the design doesn't correspond to any of the games. This illustration combines information from all three games to create an original interpretation. It would be pointless to tag all three games at once.

  • Oshi no Taisetsuna Hito ni Narikawaru: This character makes his first appearance in this game. Although the character is completely grayed out in the game itself, tweets related to the game have been made showing the character's design in color. These tweets match the eye color. (twitter #1832395740733436415)
  • Hyoutenka 30-do no Zetsubou: In this game, we learn about this character's childhood, which included strict parents. Based on these facts, fans collectively thought it would be interesting if this character learned to play the piano as a child. While we learn about his childhood, we never see him as a child - we don't know what he dressed like then. The eye color in this game is inconsistent with this fanart, as here his eyes are shown as blue or light green, like lime flesh. Additionally, the author's tweet related to this game showed that his natural hair color is black. (twitter #1961627938459455827)
  • Oshi no Tachiba ga Irekawaru: In this game, he has the same hairstyle as in this fanart. We can't fully see his face due to the shadow, but other fanart by this artist shows a similar interpretation. (fanart: post #10956733, official: twitter #2037484787305423193)

But I agree with the "general" tags. Apart from fruit, because I can imagine a situation where there is clearly a fruit in the picture, but it is not clear what kind

To me it seems fine to just do it for series-specific tags where possible. There's plenty of copyrights where it won't work, but also plenty of copyrights where it does. Pokemon might be a whole mess, but Imai Lisa is always BanG Dream! Girls Band Party!. One downside I would see here is that it might be less than ideal to have inconsistent behavior, but at the same time I don't think it would be particularly problematic.

I don't mind the concept personally. Could potentially serve as a good solution to some tag debacles (like the debate over the frills tag a while back).

Obviously, case by case basis is important to determine. My main question is in regards to copyright tags is how the matter of things like crossovers ought to be handled. Using the Monogatari as an example since it already is one, would someone searching Nisemonogatari want to see Magia Record/Magia Exedra artwork of the characters from that installment in the magical girl forms designed for those games as a hypothetical alternate universe? While I do aim to use specific tags in most cases, I usually ignore them for crossovers of that nature, which under this proposed system would lock the tags from being added manually.

I suppose that's not a big deal for regular fanart, but when it comes to official crossover artwork I sometimes deal with, it feels odd to make me look up specifics for a series I normally would never touch outside of said crossover.

There's actually very many extremely good reasons to want to use the generic copyright series tag. There's characters/outfits shared over multiple copyrights, characters that don't look any different between copyrights, crossover, cosplay, style parody, aged up and aged down, alternate universe, humanization and personification, character mostly out of frame or hiding information based on their pose/position, and, my personal favorite, characters just completely out of costume/hairstyle/accessories/nude/etc such that they're not really from any one particular entry in the copyright. I'm honestly skeptical any copy tags or char tags at all should be abstract.

GabrielWB said in forum #441264:

post #7361750

The uploader of this post just tagged it with Monogatari (Series) and pressed post.
Ononoki Yotsugi was introduced in Nisemonogatari so at the very least that tag should have been included.
Ideally all copyrights where the character appeared should be included as tags.

Personally I would just tag the umbrella for Monogatari posts unless there were a specific reference to a story. Copytags are added to posts to reference all kinds of things: specific costume of the character, referencing specific scene, or artstyle... -- When every Ononoki Yotsugi post is tagged Nisemonogatari, how do you find/tag the posts of her that specifically reference Nisemonogatari?

A more appropriate copyright example might be Macross, where each sub-copyright features distinct stories and casts.

I do generally dislike A+B umbrellas because it allows people to not tag A or B. But there does tend to be edge cases where tagging only the umbrella does make sense. Saotome Ranma became an umbrella recently and some posts are already omitting the Male and Female tags, but it also reveals cosplays that can't be pinned to either one. And should post #10142517 be tagged as the male? (it is right now because there wasn't an umbrella when it was posted).

Even the multiple girls/multiple boys tag could feasibly apply to a post with an uncountable number of people. Imagine a post with a slew of disembodied genitals and arms.(these posts exist but usually don't tag disembodied characters at all)

Updated by Spatula22

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